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Thread: Hiring x1 coder

  1. #1
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    Hiring x1 coder

    Hi,

    I am setting up a new e-magazine, an electronic version which may go into print one day.

    This e-magazine, a paid subscription follows on from my successful free weekly newsletter with over 1000 active subscribers.

    I am hiring staff.

    Wages will be basd upon how much new business our company generates, therefore I am looking for someone who is intersted in becoming the main programmer for my e-mag, and someone who is interested in making money online.

    The person MUST be able to commit to a minimum of 20 hours per month and must be flexible as the position is likely to evolve over time.

    Wages will be based upon the number of new subscribers to my monthly e-magazine.
    Initially wages will be quite small simply because it will take time to grow the subscriber base, but as our membership grows then the wages will rise up to a maximum of $6000 per month.

    My vision is to make this the number one most read e-magazine online concerning e-business/health/making money - all attributes of successful people.

    Initially you must be proven and can show examples of past work.

    I am looking for creative flash programers who can program interactivity within the flash, convert video/audio to flash etc.

    You would need to be able to offer suggestions for improvements to what we do.

    The site is www.someinfo4u.com and a temporary front cover o my magazine is located at www.someinfo4u.com/magazine.html

    Please contact me with suggestions for what could be done.

    Kind Regards

    Shaun Baird

  • #2
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    A word of warning, schemes like this rarely pay off for the coder.

    A sucessful free newsletter does not = the ability to make money online.

    If you get just 10% of those free subscribers to pay you any money, let alone a subscription fee, then you're doing better than 90% of online businesses. And thats just 100 subscriptions.
    I would advise anyone not to take this on for less than $500 a month, starting wage. If you assume an equal share for ShaunBaird then the magazine would have to cost $10 a month and thats IF you got 10%, 1-3% would be more typical.

  • #3
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    thanks nancy, Im sure you mean well but i have the means to grow this business, and I already have a good team in place.

    This is intended as a professional magazine, but in e-format.

    im sure you are just looking out for the programers here, but im looking for someone who is interested in learning the ropes in what it takes to be a success as I will teach them all I know about making money.

    Shaun

  • #4
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    surely the first thing you should teach them about making money and being a sucess, is to never sell themselves short.
    You want someone with proven ability and experience, you've already said that in your original post, any less than $500 a month for 20 hours would be selling themselves short.

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    and I completely agree, I wish I could give $500, however this is a new startup as a paid service, not a new venture for me - I know I can take it to the next level, and I was hoping to find someone who shares that same vision, and would look forward to a very healthy future as part of a team.
    hence I made the eventual wage prospect way above average.

    In these early days where would I find $500 to pay a programmer when the only funds coming in are from the new subscribers?

    If there is anyone who wants to break away from waiting for their next contract to com along, they can work with me alongside their other ventures, but I would hope they become permanent staff members over the coming months as business improves.

    From my own marketing results, with 1000 members on my list, 10% of signups does happen, simply because I have built up a huge deal of trust wth them the preceeding 12 months through my free content.

    I care dearly for al my subscribers and work tirelessly on support to help them achieve.. but the time has come where I need to earn for my efforts, so I am switching to a paid service while adding much more content to what I deliver - in fact I am over delievering.
    It must be hard for you to believe and trust me, as we don't know each other, and Im sure there are probably far too many scammers/unscrupulous people out there who promise the world and don't deliver, but I am nothing like them - feel free to read the testimonials at my site and if you like I can email you the contact details of any of them.

    I have total respect for where you are coming from, you are striving to offer decency and good conduct to your fellow comrades.

    I apologise if I come across rude or antagonistic, its not who I am - if you got to meet me you would see how genuine I am and how I help people.

    Not sure if this helps or makes any diference, but I just wanted to assure anyone who is interested that I am true to my word, and I will back you al the way if you come across this train ride for the next few years.

    Many Thanks
    Shaun Baird

  • #6
    Senior Coder NancyJ's Avatar
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    IMO, being a new business is not an excuse for exploiting workers. A sound business plan can get backing from a bank or a number of other financial companies. At the very least, one should expect that anyone with enough faith in their idea to take out a small personal loan to cover startup costs.
    I'm not questioning your integrity or intentions, merely the soundness of your venture.
    I'm just trying to make the younger, less cynical members aware that 99% of such schemes fail, leaving the coders involved, seriously out of pocket.

  • #7
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    You are right, but sadly Im out of funding options right now - I need someone with a bit of get-up and go in them. I know the coders here need regular money as do all of us.. aah well.

    Forgive me, but I certaily do not feel like I am exploiting somebody - that would be if I ran a sweat shop in china somewhee and paid them peanuts - here people know what they are getting into and the offer I have laid out is that they can also concentrate on other projects to keep their income high - I don't want to take the bread and butter out of anyones mouth, but I do need a coder who can help! If we get on well, and in time, the income will grow from this, and its a win-win situation really because anyone who commits to helping me, as much s they can, when they can will enjoy a nice future.

    Thanks
    Shaun

    Nice point of view.
    shaun

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    so you are willing to teach people how to make money online, yet you have none? hmmmmm.

  • #9
    raf
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    just been looking at your "temporary front cover o my magazine is located at www.someinfo4u.com/magazine.html " and i'd be willing to become a paid subscriber.

    especially the items: "how to avoid major scam programs - the vital signs to look out for!" and "Are you a rich entrepreneur or a poor entrepreneur." could give me a new perspective on your offer.

    because at the moment i only read things that would put me off:
    - you have no getting-started budget, which in it's own almost guarantees failior
    - you have no existing business that makes any money (a free newsletter is not a business, unless it generates some advertisement money or so) so i don't realy put a high value on your offer to 'teach them all I know about making money'.
    - you're realy not clear on the offered compensation:
    Wages will be based upon the number of new subscribers to my monthly e-magazine.
    Initially wages will be quite small simply because it will take time to grow the subscriber base, but as our membership grows then the wages will rise up to a maximum of $6000 per month.
    If i would take this on, would i then only get a slice of the subscription fees? or also from the advertisement income? and what if you would decide to sell the site or pull the plug? would you then compensate me?
    - if a would take part in some business, and especially if my wages depend on that business, then i would like a partner/client with a business attitude that is mainly in it to make some serious money, instead of having a 'I care dearly for al my subscribers and work tirelessly on support to help them achieve' attitude.
    - it doesn't all sound right... you have a site about how easy it is to make loads of money but you claim to not have any and you are now planning to start making money through a payed newsletter (one of the least succesfull ways of making any serious money)...
    Posting guidelines I use to see if I will spend time to answer your question : http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

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    Phew!!!

    Jeez..
    I never thought I would encounter such objections in here.

    First, I had a free newsletter which I stopped writing last week to switch to this.

    Secondly I did make plenty of money my mailing offers to my list peridoically.

    Thirdly, last year I started with $50 and turned it into well over $3000 part time.

    Everybody in here seems to be looking for a 'job' where they get paid on each piece of work they do.

    Sure in most cases fine and I understand.

    2 months ago, I lost most of my earnings when a company called Stormpay froze thousands of accounts which had connections to autosurfs and investment companies online because they beleived they were ponzi-type schemes - granted, most were, but I knew how to minimise risk so as you almost always win in the end.
    This intervention by the SEC into payment processors came about 2 months ago and they were ordered to freeze all accounst connected.

    The problem was I had lots of funds tied into Stormpay, which were from other types of business I was researching.

    So had an almost wipeout, like many thousands of others.

    I really find it hard to see wht people here are so afraid to devote time to a new business.

    I was looking for someone with vision - I have no intentions of ripping off anybody, using their time and not compensating them at all. I simply require the services of someone who wants to be a part of a new business.
    If it all takes off, great, the target wages will be far higher than any normal job, if not, you've only lost a bit of your time, and it would only be a bit as you are free to worok on other projects at the same time until as such a time as things advance here.

    raf, why would you want to be a paid subscriber when you would get the content for free as staff? or were you just being a little bit sarcastic?
    I apologise for thr rude words but it feels like I have been ganged up on, when I came here in all honesty looking for someone a little bit like me, and I dont think I will find that person here.

  • #11
    raf
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    There have been numerous of such 'opportunity' threads in this forum, and they've all received nothing but sarcastic comments and warnings.
    If you read the sticky regarding the posting rules for this forum --> http://www.codingforums.com/showthread.php?t=71824 <-- then you'll see that your offer should not have been posted here. So it shouldn't surprise you that you 'encounter such objections in here' and will not 'will find that person here'...
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    Everybody in here seems to be looking for a 'job' where they get paid on each piece of work they do.
    Yes. That is usually how professional freelancers work: they get payed for all their work.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    I really find it hard to see wht people here are so afraid to devote time to a new business.
    Really? I usually charge about $45/hour, and i can find all the work i need to fill my time. If i would spend 240 hours working on our site the first year, then this costs me $11k on lost income.
    That is a reasonably big investment, and i'd then like to get some clear answers on what compensation you offer. Promisses like: it'll be a success and you'll get a piece of the action aren't really gonna make me jump in.
    So instead of making all these biographical and philosophical thoughts, i would have prefered you to answer the questions that were asked. Like how will these wages exactly be computed and what happens if you decide to sell/quit?
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    I was looking for someone with vision - I have no intentions of ripping off anybody, using their time and not compensating them at all. I simply require the services of someone who wants to be a part of a new business.
    If it all takes off, great, the target wages will be far higher than any normal job, if not, you've only lost a bit of your time,
    What is your definition of 'hiring'? For me, hiring means that you'll pay someone some ammout of work for some service that he will provide.

    From your description above, you're looking for a partner that is willing to invest his time into your site, and who MIGHT get some 'wages' if your site becomes a success.

    You are realy mixing two forms of workrelation here (partner to start, staff you pay later), where the coder always gets the worst deal:
    - the coder needs to invest his time, without guaranteed compensation
    - you don't invest any money to make this a success
    - if it becomes a success, then the coder gets some part of the income from subscriptions --> very vague
    - you maintain complete control over the site, it's completely your property.

    Before i would even consider becomming "part of a new business", and investing my time (and thus money) into it, then you would at least need to offer me an equal partnership.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    and it would only be a bit as you are free to worok on other projects at the same time until as such a time as things advance here.
    Are you being sarcastic? On top of needing to work for some vague promisse of future compensation, you think it's a priviledge that we don't need to allocate all of our time to work for you? and you realy thing that if your business picks up, that this would entitle you to request more hours from your coder?
    So basically, if there is no income, then he needs to work for future compensations. If there is some income, then he needs to put in the hours to earn his compensation?
    For your information, a pro freelance coder can earn at least $30/hour. Which amounts to about your maximun wages if he would work fulltime for you.

    You require a minimum input of 20 hours/month, so how long do you think it will take until the coder will get $600 wages from you so that he 'breaks even'? How long will it take until he gets his return on investment?
    Do you have some sort of business plan or a projection of expected earning?

    If not, let me brake this down for you, for my personal situation:
    - expected efford to getting the site on line (in 2 months): 150 hours = $6750- expected income first 6 months after GO LIVE: 0. Monthly investment 20 hours/month = $5400
    - expected income 6 - 12 months after GO LIVE: $1800. Own investement = $5400
    so after a year, i'd be having invested $17550 and i'd be very happy if your site would have become such a success that i would have earned $1800 (which is already a very optimistic progosis if you consider how few sites actually make a profit from subscriptions!)
    If i would just wanna get my normal fee of $45/hour, then i would need to get a wages of $1556/month for the second and third year (provided i keep working the minimum of 20 hours/month)
    What site do you know earns that kind of money from subscription fees? To pull that off, you'll gonna need real profession developpers and designers + you're gonnan need some serious money for your marketing.

    If you simply do the math, then you are looking for a coder that will do this practically for nothing. I wouldn't even be surprised that if anyone takes this on, that you would even be running the site of one of his servers or accounts!
    Man, when i still did freebees, i even worked with peope that let me build a complete application for free, and then decided not to use it because $5/month for hosting was 'too much'.

    What do you think would happen if a professional coder would take this on, and he has worked 100 hours to get your site up and running, and he doesn't get any (significant) money the first months? Do you think he'd be motivated to spend more time on the sites maintenance or on the implementation of new features?
    Of course not --> he'll start working on projects that actually generated some revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    raf, why would you want to be a paid subscriber when you would get the content for free as staff? or were you just being a little bit sarcastic?
    I was being as sarcastic as i could be on that beautifull sunny day...
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunbaird
    I apologise for thr rude words but it feels like I have been ganged up on, when I came here in all honesty looking for someone a little bit like me, and I dont think I will find that person here.
    You're not being straight. You're saying you wanna hire someone, but actually, you're looking for a partner that initially will invest his time, and that would become a payed staff-member as soon as you start making some profit.

    You'll probably wount find any takers here.
    And if you do, it'll probably be someone with limited experience that will be very eager to move onto better paying work once he gets a bit of experince and/or when he finds out he's practically working for nothing and continuously need to put in more hours without any short term chance for compensation.

    my best advise to you:
    If you indeed know how to make money easely online, then wait for another few months, make some money and then come back with a real hiring offer.
    Posting guidelines I use to see if I will spend time to answer your question : http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

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    So, I take then, that you are saying no?

    Truthfully, and honestly, I wish you all the best for the future.

    I never came here for a fight or argument with anybody.
    You never even asked what I would have required.

    Anyway, if I had funds to create a wage, of course I would offer it - Im not a nasty guy - yes, Im looking for people who want to be a part of a team who start from not much, and work to build their wages. yes they are part of team and NO they are not partners but they will get looked after.

    I am pretty good at marketing, in fact it is one of my forte's and within 12 months the wage situation would not even need to be discussed.
    My staff will enjoy more than the average wage - and I will tell you something for nothing - I don't need people like this - Im sorry but I dont think the right sort of people are here. I could not work with people who spend all day and all night arguing about something or nothing.

    You are saying that there are too many opportunities posted here - how was I supposed to know that?
    Ive never visited here before - I googled for programmers and hit this forum.

    I apologise if this was the wrong category, as such, but it was entitled "paid work offers and "REQUESTS"

    Anyway, it does not make any sense to continue issuing bad words betwen us here - my time is important enough, so good luck, and I wish you well.

    Kind Regards

    Shaun Baird
    www.someinfo4u.com
    shaunbaird@someinfo4u.com

  • #13
    Senior Coder missing-score's Avatar
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    The main reason why you may feel ganged up on is becuase there are alot of seasoned code veterans on this site (like raf) who are capable of making alot of money without any risk. These people care about the newer people joining the site who may get taken in to a potentially risky venture.

    No-one is saying you cannot be a success because I'm certain that with good marketing you could be very successful... However I do agree that you should be willing to put in money... If you don't have any yet, wait till you get some, then come back.

    Most experienced people would rather get paid and have no stake in the final project than not get paid and just have potential to make more money... We have to pay bills too and (as I know from recent events) freelancing can be a risking business if not handled perfectly... I'm still learning the ropes of business management and self motiviation.

    So yeah... dont feel like we are ganging up on you, we are giving opinions on your offer... If it makes you feel any better, your thread is technically against the rules of this forum but I allowed it to stay to see if you did get anyone interested becuase it sounded like you had a better plan than most that ask for free work to be done.


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