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  1. #1
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    IE for Mac ~~ how to test?

    I run windows ME I test in IE 5.5 and NS 6.1, but my current client wants everything to run perfect on Mac, so apparently :
    Internet Explorer 5.1.6 for Mac OS 8.1 to 9.x
    Internet Explorer 5.2.2 for Mac OS X


    does this mean the windows equivalent of IE 5.1 and 5.2? if so isn't that when there was no DOM2 support? is there any sort of reference to what's supported by these or is there a way I can test (short of buying a Mac) would IE 5.1 and 5.2 for windows run the same?
    corrie track

  • #2
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    No - windows ie5 and mac ie5 are nothing like the same; broadly speaking - mac/ie5 is far more standards compliant than its windows equivalent, so the closest test browser, without having a mac, would be mozilla.

    Having said that - mac/ie5 has some horrendous bugs in its rendering engine. http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/index.html?version5.html is good for DOM info while http://www.macedition.com/cb/ie5macbugs/ will give you the low down on its CSS bugs, but there's no real substitute for having a mac, if you want it to be right.

    There's a good online service called BrowserCam which can show you what your layout looks like. It was talked about in this thread

    But my personal view is that every professional web developer needs a mac. Course it's easy to say that when you've got one but that's the only reason I bought it, and they're not that expensive - you don't need a G4 or anything - you could pick up a decent enough iMac for about $4-500 second hand. One decent job would pay for that - a job you might not have got without being able to assure mac compatibility

    btw - hardly anyone uses mac/ie5 anymore - only 12% of mac users. http://www.macedition.com/cb/cb_20030127.php Still have to support it of course, but maybe not for much longer. I wouldn't be surprised if IE6 for mac never happens.
    Last edited by brothercake; 05-05-2003 at 04:00 PM.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #3
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    btw - hardly anyone uses mac/ie5 anymore - only 12% of mac users

    In my university, I haven't seen anyone use any other browser but IE on the macs. But that's also because people don't use the Macs via an option, only when the other computers are not free.

    The Windows/IE and Mac/IE, I'll have to agree with you, are glaringly different when I ran my site, it was very annoying, where the simplest of things would just act up. If you serious about a site and getting an income out of it, I'll have to go with brothercake on this one and get a mac for it.

    However, there is one other option, to pay for this one service called browsercam which shows you images of what your site would look like on different OS and browsers:

    http://www.browsercam.com/

    Its worth checking out.

    Duniyadnd

  • #4
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    Re: btw - hardly anyone uses mac/ie5 anymore - only 12% of mac users

    Originally posted by duniyadnd
    However, there is one other option, to pay for this one service called browsercam which shows you images of what your site would look like on different OS and browsers:

    http://www.browsercam.com/

    Its worth checking out.
    Yeah I know - I mentioned it in my reply:
    Originally posted by brothercake
    There's a good online service called BrowserCam which can show you what your layout looks like. It was talked about in this thread
    It's a good service, but pictures has an obvious limit - you have to keep tweaking things and taking more screenshots. Certainly fine for web page design, but of limited use for programming javascript.

    I was gratified to notice that they don't offer any OS or browser combination I can't reproduce myself
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #5
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    Are there any grade schools near where you live cortic? Most of the grade schools around here use macs and when they have to update sometimes the get rid of the old computers. I was lucky enough to pic up an old imac--granted it didn't work too well and shot craps on me in about a week. Still, it is a viable solution. Also, as brothercake pointed out, it's not too overly expensive to buy a used mac. That would be your best bet.
    My Site {Mike's Adventures}

    Yikes, forums are almost too much fun.

  • #6
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    Brothercake - thanks for all the info man, got mozilla and tested all my code, works fine.. so its probably a bug with IE for Mac, that link to CSS bugs is gona be helpful. I need a solid testing environment though, your right I'm going to have to get an iMac in the mean time (&for this job) I'm looking into an emulator at emulators.com, I need a ROM BIOS and an installation CD-ROM, but hell if it works it will make life a lot easier. BrowserCam is a great idea and I might try the user/pass the guy posted but for the amount of DOM - based work I do I'd be better off getting an iMac. Also thanks for the statistics link - I had no idea there was so many options for the Mac users, 6 rendering engines? Damn! Lol, I really hope they all have good DOM support or I'm in for a nightmare.

    Duniyadnd - thanks for your response, as I say the BrowserCam is a great idea but I really need a testing environment, check out Brothercake's link to 'The evolving browser ecosystem' thing, IE has a strong 10 - 15% but those damn Mac users (lol) are a adventuring bunch, 60% swing in the first month? wow.

    pardicity3 - there are some schools / colleges quite close to where I live (I'm in the UK - everything's under an hour away lol) but there awful tight when it comes to throwing out old stuff (probably destroy it so no one else could use it). If I can just get the emulator working and finish a job or two more I could afford to buy a decent one.. but you and Brothercake are right all I need for testing is an old one.
    corrie track

  • #7
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    Originally posted by cortic
    those damn Mac users (lol) are a adventuring bunch, 60% swing in the first month? wow.
    Safari came as an OSX update and set itself as default. Before that most Mac users were using IE, which is a miserable browsing experience at the best of times, so I'm personally not surprised by this sudden swing. Safari is still marked as "beta 2", so when it makes final release I anctipate most, if not all remaining IE users will switch to it - leaving a dedicated core of mozilla, and a smaller hardcore of iCab and OmniWeb users.
    Originally posted by cortic
    I'm looking into an emulator at emulators.com, I need a ROM BIOS and an installation CD-ROM, but hell if it works it will make life a lot easier.
    It won't; there is no such thing as a Mac PPC emulator for Windows - you can do 68K emulation, but that's where it stops. The closest there was was called "Gemulator" - but it was never released, and probably won't be, because you can't do PPC emulation without a Mac ROM, and obviously Apple aren't going to license that. You could buy one yourself - but afaik, only by buying a Mac.
    Last edited by brothercake; 05-08-2003 at 02:22 PM.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #8
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    Sounds like there are enough of us mac geeks out here, why don't you just post your site address and let us test it?

    All we have to do is click SHIFT+APPLE+4 and we can drag our mouse to make a snap shot of your screen and email it to you with the version number.

    I know I have IE 5 (which I don't use often, yes ) Opera 7, NN 7, Safari, OmniWeb, MacLynx (which is not too helpful for you unless you are making your site handy-accessible) and some old browsers to test.

    And, from what I heard at the SF keynote... MS actually did talk about making a new browser for the Mac - but I would agree that it just may not happen. Apple's trying to bully them out, even though they saved Steve Jobs from another marketing disaster.

  • #9
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    Originally posted by bradyj
    I have ... Opera 7
    Not on the Mac - there isn't [and prolly won't be] an Opera 7 for mac.
    Last edited by brothercake; 05-08-2003 at 06:54 PM.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #10
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    brothercake is right -- I'm on Opera 6 -- I've been jumping between computers too long, my mistake

  • #11
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    Opera 6 for mac ... duh ... don't get me started

    Opera 6 for mac is the only non-DOM browser which declares itself as a DOM browser - in other words this condition:
    Code:
    (typeof document.getElementById!="undefined" 
    && 
    typeof document.createElement!="undefined")
    will return native support - Opera 6 supports the dynamic creation of elements ... except that it can't actually add them to the DOM ...

    Pain in the butt that one; it means that for reliable detection of element creation you have to check specifically for mac/opera 6 ...
    Code:
    var ua = navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();
    var op6 = (
    	ua.indexOf("opera 6")!=-1
    	||
    	ua.indexOf("opera/6")!=-1
    	)?true:false;
    var dom = (
    	typeof document.getElementById!="undefined"
    	&&
    	typeof document.createElement!="undefined"
    	&&
    	!op6
    	)?true:false;
    Last edited by brothercake; 05-08-2003 at 11:30 PM.
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #12
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    Or try document.implementation, document.implementation.hasFeature()...
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
    Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
    Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
    Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards

  • #13
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    Originally posted by liorean
    Or try document.implementation, document.implementation.hasFeature()...
    Except that these are even less reliable ... as I'm sure you remember
    "Why bother with accessibility? ... Because deep down you know that the web is attractive to people who aren't exactly like you." - Joe Clark

  • #14
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    That's interesting -- it is a squirrely browser (opera 6) and I don't use it too often but to check my sites on occassion to see how it lends itself to it (which, is often, not very pleasant).

    It sits in my harddrive unnoticed and lord knows I'm not paying for the full install. No worries.

  • #15
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    Brothercake, it was the use of the keyword in that was the problem there, not the use of document.implementation. If you use typeof ... !='undefined' and ....hasFeature('HTML','1.0') you get what you want.
    liorean <[lio@wg]>
    Articles: RegEx evolt wsabstract , Named Arguments
    Useful Threads: JavaScript Docs & Refs, FAQ - HTML & CSS Docs, FAQ - XML Doc & Refs
    Moz: JavaScript DOM Interfaces MSDN: JScript DHTML KDE: KJS KHTML Opera: Standards


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