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Thread: New BB version

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    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    New BB version

    Have I lost 2497 thanks? If the "thanks" button has been discontinued I see that as a very retrograde step. And the "Top 50" stats seems to have disappeared. Not sure yet if I like the new layout. I have to say that my first reaction is thumbs down. I suspect that as so often someone has mistaken change for improvement.

    But it will be good if we get rid of the frequent breakdowns.

    All advice is supplied packaged by intellectual weight, and not by volume. Contents may settle slightly in transit.
    Last edited by Philip M; 02-20-2014 at 04:31 PM.

    All the code given in this post has been tested and is intended to address the question asked.
    Unless stated otherwise it is not just a demonstration.

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    Senior Coder rnd me's Avatar
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    thanks for nothing i guess. Great client communication on the re-design. What's up with this anyway? Why is everything so cartoon-y? There is even more wasted space than before. Blog this post? RSS up in my face? SEO shown to users? In-post advertising? Inconsistent clickable visual indication. Feels like i'm back in college. Two steps forward, three steps back.

    I don't think i'll be using this forum as much until things get a little more modern, professional, and user-oriented around here...
    Last edited by rnd me; 02-20-2014 at 04:31 PM.
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    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post

    I don't think i'll be using this forum as much until things get a little more modern, professional, and user-oriented around here...
    That will be a big pity, as you are a great strength to the forum. But I very much fear that others may take a similar attitude.

    But I see that the green blobs and the faintly ridiculous descriptions "rnd me is a jewel in the rough" and so on survive, although I do not see the buttons to add reputation.

    Can we ask for the previous version back? I had no problems with it whatseover.
    Last edited by Philip M; 02-20-2014 at 04:45 PM.

    All the code given in this post has been tested and is intended to address the question asked.
    Unless stated otherwise it is not just a demonstration.

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    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    The "What's New" link isn't working - it takes you to the "Activity Stream" page - something completely different.
    Stephen
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    Master Coder felgall's Avatar
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    Also I am getting huge numbers of database errors and so can't edit posts or navigate the forums properly.

    Not to mention the annoying horizontal scrollbar and content disappearing off the screen.
    Stephen
    Learn Modern JavaScript - http://javascriptexample.net/
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    Don't forget to start your JavaScript code with "use strict"; which makes it easier to find errors in your code.

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    Supreme Master coder! Philip M's Avatar
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    Something else wobbly. This thread shows (before this post) last poster Philip M and replies 2. But felgall has posted twice as well.

    Still shows replies 2 after this post has been added.

    Methinks the new forum board is a long way from trouble-free. Clicking on Notifications produces a database error.

    PS - I am disappointed to see an ad for electronic cigarettes. Many people think that smoking in any form is a vile habit.

    All the code given in this post has been tested and is intended to address the question asked.
    Unless stated otherwise it is not just a demonstration.

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    Thumbs down forum feedback

    Well the graphics for the forum are a descent change, but the text size is now tiny on my monitor. Guess I'll have to look elsewhere for help. Eye strain...
    P.S. getting database error pages when trying to access 'my profile','notification','settings' areas.
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    Senior Coder rnd me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip M View Post
    Methinks the new forum board is a long way from trouble-free. Clicking on Notifications produces a database error.

    PS - I am disappointed to see an ad for electronic cigarettes. Many people think that smoking in any form is a vile habit.
    why do i get the feeling that release testing was short-changed? Why would anyone take web development advice from such a janky site?
    in sum, and apoligies to those who spent time and effort on this:

    EPIC FAIL

    • final thoughts before i give you guys a week to remedy the problem:
    • please for the love of god kill the wasted space, borders, rounded corners, gradients, and other 5-year-old web design trends; some of the changes look good, like the #dddcdc bar under the posts: flat, clean, and simple. The centered text and white boxes around the user stats on the left badge area are the root of all evil.
    • are we not supposed to put CODE in a Quick Reply?
    • reliance on tooltips is a big middle-finger to anyone on a touch device, the majority of useragents now sold.
    • in spots where tooltips make sense, like "Go advanced", whatever that means to the un-initiated, they aren't helpful.
    • in spots where they aren't helpful, the titles are annoying, ex Font>Font Name, Size>Font size, well DUH!
    • does "A" mean "set font color" to anyone in the world? (gotta love mystery meat icons...)
    • logging in lost my place.
    • why does the login button end with a question mark?
    • CaSE mAtTers if you want to look professional: Forgot password, but Remember Me? "Sort Results by", "User Name" vs "Exact name" ? consistency sub-consciously makes user happy and keeps them clicking longer.
    • speaking of consistency: ":: CLIENT SIDE DEVELOPMENT -" what are the "::" and " - " used to differentiate?
    • speaking of consistency: why "Flash & ActionScript" but "Graphics and Multimedia discussions" and "Computer/PC discussions" ?
    • speaking of consistency: why "Computer/PC discussions" (no space around slash), versus "Perl/ CGI" with right-side space.
    • can we git rid of the readability-killing use of italics on small fonts?
    • what about the dozen or so JS errors on every page?
    • what about all the 404s on every page?
    • there are doctypes newer than 15 years old...
    • why don't i stay logged-in if i open a local link in a new tab?
    • popups? really? i mean, cooooome ooonnnnnnn!!!! the site siting atop a mountain of web expertise and you defy our basic advise?
    • <font color="Lime"> WTF year is it? where do i start with this one, mixed case attribs, color names, hard-coded styles, font tags?!?!? does anyone think lime on white is enough contrast?
    • does anyone think #b6b6b6 on #f0f0f0 is sufficient contrast? that's illegal for me to do at my job, and still just negligent for y'all to do at yours.
    • the new "hairdo" push relevant info below the fold, expect a 10-20% drop-off in lurkers as a result
    • how many cookies are you going to set?
    • do you need so much inline JS?
    • why are there <script src> tags in the head?
    • why does it take >100 requests comprising 667kb to render 8kb of on-screen text? i advice my devs to go no lower than 50% efficient, y'all are at 1.19%
    • oh wait, those terrible number i just quoted were with adblock enabled. turning it off, it's FAR worse. 141 request totaling 1.4mb. 1.4MB? Sure modem/edge users can wait 5 mins for your main page to load while they research a burning issue? this aint ketchup...
    • 4 seconds to load was pushing it in the 90s, ask google what a 4second load does not only to visitor behavior, but their page ranking formula as well.
    • is http://www.codingforums.com/images/s...rum_new-48.png supposed to be a smilly or something? it's a terrible and confusing bullet.
    • "02-18-2014" is not inutitive to europeans. while "02-18-2014" is decipherable (if you make me think about it), what about "02-06-2014"?
    • why are icons sometimes underlined? hint: anchors, but it's ugly.
    • kill the remaining isolated instance of box-shadows; they clash with the flat stuff that looks good currently.
    • rss icon is hard to read because of low contrast and tiny text isnt the [)))] icon universal enough we don't need english as images?
    • the crown text "Title / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post By" is function-less clutter.
    • advanced search doesn't search, just takes me to a page where i have to wait again and make additional effort to get what i want. me dumb user no like dat.
    • the search tags cloud is jumbled together into what might as well be the alphabet.
    • i would put all these a bullet-ed list, but that's not in the quick reply either. (ok, since i had to resote my post anyway, i went advanced and got a new (inconsistent) set of formatting options...



    whew! if you think that's bad, you should see the stuff i deleted to try to be nice, even though i've been hurt badly by your actions last night.

    I know i'm being picky and dismissive of what might be considerable effort, but i'm saying what other can't or won't because i DO like this site, and believe it helps a lot of folks, which is why i like contributing my time here. If i didn't care, i wouldn't bother b1tching.
    you might have smart staff, but they need practice playing dumb and putting themselves in "stupid user" shoes. need help? ask your mom or another old person to do basic common tasks and watch em flounder...
    in short, i have to think to myself a lot as i scan the page, asking lots of internal questions like "what does that do/mean"? read some jared spool or big red fez, or don't make me think, or something, anything usability related would be nice.

    Shame on you guys for cramming this down everyone's throat without prior announcement, feedback, or apparently, comprehensive real-world testing.

    PS- thank god i did a notepad backup, your login threw away my typing and gave me a blank page as i tried to "Go Advanced".
    it told me to go back and refresh, and when i did, my efforts had been discarded. for shame.
    I can deal with a spacy design, but i WILL NOT tolerate lost work, nobody should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by c1lonewolf View Post
    Well the graphics for the forum are a descent change, but the text size is now tiny on my monitor. Guess I'll have to look elsewhere for help. Eye strain...
    The text size defaults are decent in Firefox 27 and IE 11 on Windows 8.1, but I have the OS UI scaling option set to 125%. Firefox and IE scale text according to the OS setting. Chrome and Opera ignore the setting, though you can get equivalent text sizes by manually zooming in twice (with Ctrl++) in those browsers. (I believe Firefox remembers zoom settings on a per-site basis (where it's not needed because of the OS-based solution), but I'm not sure about other browsers; you may end up having to repeatedly zoom in Chrome and Opera if they don't do the same.)

    If you're using Windows and want to enable OS scaling, you can do so by going to the Control Panel, selecting the Display item, and selecting a new scaling value. Make sure "Let me choose one scaling level for all my displays" is checked or non-scaling applications like Notepad++ will end up with a blurry interface.

    Quote Originally Posted by c1lonewolf View Post
    P.S. getting database error pages when trying to access 'my profile','notification','settings' areas.
    Yeah, I'm getting error messages after every post, though the posts seem to have been successful after I reload the thread.
    For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

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    God Emperor Fou-Lu's Avatar
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    I haven't notice any alteration in majority of the text sizes, can anyone else verify?

    Little late for me here.
    I still haven't really noticed an issue with the basic text, some of the side functionality like edit seems to be smaller and the profiles seem to busy for my liking.
    I've noticed the db issues as well.

    Anyone else having problems with the pagination? I can't seem to make it past page 1.

    I think I see the size issue as well, the thread listings are a bit on the small side, especially next to the author which is about the same size.
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    The fat guy next door VIPStephan's Avatar
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    I don’t have any issues with font size. According to Firebug it’s set to 13px and it looks like that to me.

    I do have problems with the pagination. I’ve written another feedback post noting various issues on http://www.codingforums.com/forum-fe...ar-future.html and it seems to be on page 2 but I can’t access it. And my post list (when clicking my name on the left) isn’t very current either because the latest posts don’t show up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip M View Post
    Can we ask for the previous version back? I had no problems with it whatseover.
    I like the previous version better too. Could have used some minor improvements in post formatting, but otherwise, it worked well. Maybe I'll provide a list later.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    why do i get the feeling that release testing was short-changed? Why would anyone take web development advice from such a janky site?
    in sum, and apoligies to those who spent time and effort on this:

    EPIC FAIL
    The errors are an obvious fail. At least I can post even though I'm told all my posts and post edits failed.

    I'm not surprised at the code though. The previous version's code wasn't exactly stellar, and I really don't expect it to be when the software used is outsourced (to vBulletin).

    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    please for the love of god kill the wasted space, borders, rounded corners, gradients, and other 5-year-old web design trends; some of the changes look good, like the #dddcdc bar under the posts: flat, clean, and simple. The centered text and white boxes around the user stats on the left badge area are the root of all evil.
    +1. One of my first complaints would be the wasted space at the top of pages. I dislike the "Web 2.0" look with its overuse of space, gradients, rounded corners, and lack of contrast of posts compared to the surrounding page area. The fact that the text is gray instead of black also sucks.

    The quote boxes (now quote bubbles) are more elegant at least, though I'd drop the arrows on the left that point to nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    oh wait, those terrible number i just quoted were with adblock enabled. turning it off, it's FAR worse. 141 request totaling 1.4mb. 1.4MB? Sure modem/edge users can wait 5 mins for your main page to load while they research a burning issue? this aint ketchup...
    I have a feeling this is from the videos that play for users that aren't logged in. I just reviewed the design in four browsers and had videos with sound auto-play in all of them until I logged in. That was annoying.

    And, while the sound is seemingly new, the videos aren't. Last I checked, the old version of the site was downloading (silent) Flash video advertisements in the background that simply get hidden when you log in. I didn't realize it until a poster pointed out that he went through the source code and manually blocked everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    "02-18-2014" is not inutitive to europeans. while "02-18-2014" is decipherable (if you make me think about it), what about "02-06-2014"?
    Disagree with this one. Sorting the date values by specificity makes the most sense to me even though mm-dd-yyyy is the norm here in the United States. I prefer the Japanese (and ISO standard) format though which is in reverse: yyyy-mm-dd.

    If paperwork doesn't specify a format, I insist on using yyyy-mm-dd even though it sometimes elicits confused responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by rnd me View Post
    whew! if you think that's bad, you should see the stuff i deleted to try to be nice, even though i've been hurt badly by your actions last night.
    Please, do continue.

    I'd make it a first priority to make the post text black, eliminate the black bar at the top, kill every gradient except perhaps the green background gradient, and reduce the height of the green header region. I'd also go back to the post borders and backgrounds used in the previous design, though the rounded quote box borders can stay.

    Edit: I struck the text "remove every rounded corner". I meant to take that out. The rounded corners at the top of pages are really ugly though.
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    OK, one issue seemingly down. The quote bubble arrows vanished after I posted.
    For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

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    You guys are doing much better than I. With my admin account I cannot even view some of the forums anymore since there's some db error that appears to be linked to administrator functionality :/

    I've put in a request for a couple of the default themes that were available with the 4.x version of the software. The basic one isn't green, but just the flat greyish colours, which is fine and there was another pretty nice blue one similar to this. I was hoping it would have been kept; the original design sure did break the new forum though; bad enough I had to use the control panel to set my user back hah.
    Testing was very limited for sure; the staff on this forum didn't have any input for the design of the forums, and we didn't even know we were looking at an upgrade until a couple of weeks ago. I'm glad we had a software upgrade, but I wish we had a few more days for testing. Admittedly though, a lot of the problems I see right now didn't exist at all in the testing environment, even with the clone of the db.

    We'll need to start on functionality first and foremost. Once we get a repair run on some of the tables and see some of these db errors disappear, then we can address some of the other issues as well. Some of the ones you've pointed out rnd have always existed: the forum names haven't change for example. Cookies have always been an issue as well, there was a time where the www was both used and not used, so that sure was frustrating.
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    Fonts are marginally smaller..

    Thanks counts have gone

    Reply counts no longer work - reply to something and it will still show 0 replies

    AJAX replies now need a page refresh..

    Must admit I like the fresh new design but the loss of functionality has annoyed me a few times today - I've replied to one topic (which is a lot for me lately lol) but that was a frustrating experience.
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    Many useful explanations and tips including: Cannot modify headers - already sent, The IE if (isset($_POST['submit'])) bug explained, unexpected T_CONSTANT_ENCAPSED_STRING, debugging tips and much more!


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